• Razgovori
• 04.05.2017.
• Razgovor vodila: Katarina Kostandinović
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Predstavljanje umetnika / Introducing the artist: Lee Kit (2. deo / part 2)

>>> Please scroll down for the English version

 

 

 

Kroz svoje postavke izražavaš čitav spektar emocija, tiho je, čisto i otvoreno. Deluje tako intimno i lično, ali tvrdiš da se ne radi o tebi.

 

Da i ne. Na početku, naravno, to jeste moja emocija. Ali ne mogu da se pretvaram da mogu da osetim tuđe emocije, to je nemoguće. Od početka je lično jer ne mogu da osetim tuđa osećanja. To je kao kuvanje kafe, uvek koristim istu metaforu. Imam zrna kafe, imam aparat za kafu i veoma dobar filter za kafu, ali ono što želim da ti dam je kafa. Kada bi mi neko dao kafu i pritom mi pokazao zrna kafe i aparat za kafu, to bi me baš iznerviralo. Želim samo kafu. Te mislim da sam pravio kafu na ovoj izložbi.

Shvatio sam tada da Bijenale predstavlja reprezentaciju. Navodno, trebalo je da budem ponosan na sebe, ali zaista se nisam tako osećao. Nervirala me je činjenica da predstavljam grad. Hong Kong postaje sve gori. Ali takođe, nisam želeo da u Veneciji pričam o političkoj situaciji u Hong Kongu. Ono što sam mogao da uradim je da napravim kompoziciju. Bilo je jednostavno. I sada shvatam da je ceo prostor bio moje platno. Čak i kada sam postavio TV, proveo sam dosta vremena razmišljajući gde bih ga postavio. Nisam mnogo radio, više sam razmišljao o tome gde ga postaviti. I gde bi trebalo postaviti usisivač, gde bi trebalo postaviti belu kutiju, gde bi trebalo smestiti dva video rada. Sve je u vezi sa kompozicijom, teksturom, bojom i tada sam pomislio da je to slika.

 

 

 

 

 

Koristiš određenu paletu boja – pastelne boje, često koristiš i motiv šaka, one se pojavljuju kao studija. Šake u različitim gestovima. I često su to tvoje šake ili šake tvoje devojke.

 

Nisam uvideo da često koristim šake. Nisam znao da to radim, ali onda sam počeo o tome da razmišljam. Možda je to zato što su ruke, odnosno šake vrlo iskrene. Npr. kada nekog voliš, držiš ga za ruku. Kada si nervozan ili ljut, tvoje ruke se tresu, nesvesno. Šake su vrlo iskrene, ne možeš slagati, manje su komplikovane od očiju. Sada osećam da imam novu opsesiju, nisam to shvatao. Uglavnom koristim slike šaka koje nalazim online, u časopisima, na fejsbuku.

 

 

 

Projektor često upotrebljavaš kao izvor svetlosti. Jednom prilikom si rekao da mrziš reflektore u galerijama. Kako si počeo da koristiš projektor kao izvor svetlosti?

 

Da, uopšte ne volim reflektore. Kada vidim reflektor, želeo bih da ga otkačim. Obično bih postavljao svoju fluo rasvetu ili bih postavljao IKEA podne lampe, nešto slično tome. Ali ne mogu se uvek oslanjati na to. A kako sam ga otkrio je bila slučajnost. Piknik je bila slučajnost, slučajnost je veoma važan deo mog rada koji ne mogu da kontrolišem. Jednom sam bio toliko lenj da ustanem i upalim svetlo da sam upalio projektor koji se nalazio pored mene; upalio sam ga i onda sam okačio sliku na zid, ispred projektora. Onda sam pomislio da bih mogao da fotografišem sliku i da fotografiju projektujem pored slike. I tako se desilo. Shvatio sam da imam još jedan izvor svetlosti koji je od nedavno postao bitan element u mojim radovima.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jednom prilikom si pomenuo da: „Smisao života je da ponekad imamo priliku da radimo nešto potpuno besmisleno. Tada se inspirišemo. Npr. umetnost: umetnost je ponekad potpuno besmislena.“ U tvojim sobama ili postavkama, na neki način, ukazuješ na svakodnevicu, ponavljaš elemente, ali takođe inspiraciju crpiš iz pop kulture, koristiš stihove ili reči koje si negde pročitao ili slike koje si negde video.  

 

Za mene su to sve ready-made predmeti, gotovi, pruženi, i ja ih mogu koristiti. U okviru ready-made koncepta mogu raditi šta želim. Imam zaštitu. Zvuk mi je dosta važan, dok sada razgovaramo, napolju se čuje neka buka, trube sviraju. Čujem sebe kako govorim, ali tu je i taj zvuk. Zvuk je nejasan, kao slika izdaleka. Interesuje me ta vrsta distance. Npr. ako naslikam sliku malih dimenzija i okačim je na zid, približim joj se, tada ne mogu da vidim celu sliku, mutno je, trebalo bi da se udaljim da bih je zagledao.

Svaki element, stihovi, reči koje sam zapisao ili pročitao, pesme koje volim ili kojih se sećam iz detinjstva, sve to ima određenu distancu. Dobro se sećam muzike iz osamdesetih, pamtim mnogo američkih i britanskih pop pesama, zato što smo bili kolonijalizovani, to nije bio moj izbor. Ali pamtim ih, isprale su mi mozak i razumem ih na drugačiji način, bile su u daljini. Distanca je važna, jer kada su detalji nejasni, moraš se udaljiti da bi video celu sliku, ali kada se udaljiš, onda ne vidiš detalje. Kao Sizif, kotrljaš kamen uzbrdo, padneš, kotrljaš ga ponovo. 

Ali u procesu primetim više detalja, da se vratim na metaforu gde posmatram sliku, ali takođe posmatram i prostor. Zidove, strukturu i to mogu da upotrebim na politički način, kao tačku sa koje bi trebalo posmatrati svet.

 

 

 

 

 

Bonfanten muzej u Mastrihtu u Holandiji je bio naručilac tvog rada 2014. godine?

 

Ovaj muzej ima interesantnu kolekciju, deo kolekcije čini religijsko slikarstvo od 14. veka do 17. veka i kolekcija savremene umetnosti. Nema moderne zato što nemaju dovoljno sredstava. Mene su izabrali jer su uvideli da me interesuju šake. U religijskom slikarstvu šake pričaju priču. Nisam obavio nikakvo dodatno istraživanje, bilo je dovoljno da pogledam kolekciju i shvatim da se radi o religijskom slikarstvu. Ja nisam iz tog konteksta. Još jedna stvar kojom sam opsednut su uobičajena engleska imena, kao Džoni, Džon, Piter, Meri i često ih koristim u svojim radovima. Postavka  u Bazelu se zvala Kako namestiti stan za Džonija. Dopada mi se to ime, ali nikada nisam upoznao ni jednog Džonija. I Piter, ime koje mi se takođe dopada, možda slučajno – Piter, religijsko slikarstvo, slike ruku…

Kada već govorimo o religiji, mislim da je iskupljenje najvažnije. Ali mislim da ljudi danas ne veruju u to kao nekada. Gde je iskupljenje? Iseci prst. Daj ga Piteru možda? To je stih koji sam napisao, ponekad pišem pesme, nekada sam i svirao, i dok sam postavljao rad u muzeju sve ove stvari su došle na svoje mesto.

 

 

Prostor ti je takođe važan, kao i njegova praznina?

 

Mislim da većina mojih projekata ne može biti reprodukovana, ne zbog fizičkog ograničenja, već zbog lokalnog konteksta. Izložba u Tokiju (Glas iza mene, Shiseido galerija, 2015) i Tokijo sam po sebi stvara utisak određene, spokojne samoće. Usamljenost – to je baš Tokijo, ne Japan, i to sam želeo da prikažem. Iz Venecije se izrodila situacija u Tokiju, mislim da su moje izložbe ili projekti, nemogući da se dokumentuju, zato što su nalik koncertu. To znači da bi trebalo biti tamo kako bi se doživelo. Kao CD: ako kupiš CD sa snimkom koncerta to opet nije koncert. Moraš biti tamo. Na koncertima čak i najveći muzičari greše i ta greška može biti poenta.

Kada putujem da radim izložbe, ne putujem da uradim izložbu, već da izvedem koncert. Pokušavam da od toga napravim nešto jer ne umem ljudima rečima da objasnim šta me zanima i šta su mi preokupacije.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kakav je tvoj proces pripremanja rada za izložbu, ili konkretno, izvođenje rada unutar kustoskog koncepta? Ovo nije prvi put da radiš sa Biljanom Ćirić?

 

Zajedno smo radili na dva ili tri projekta pre ovog. Radili smo zajedno 2015. godine u Jekaterinburgu na Uralskom Bijenalu u Rusiji. Kao kustos je veoma detaljna i organizovana. Ima tendenciju da zna detalje predložaka radova i voli da bude uključena u sve tokom postavke. Ali ja nisam takav umetnik, ne zato što sam lenj ili neodgovoran na neki način, već zato što, ponavljam, ne znam kako da se izrazim ljudima. Ako bih ti nešto izložio, siguran sam da bih se već sledećeg trenutka predomislio.

Rad sa njom deluje kao da smo iz paralelnih univerzima, zato što nikada ne pričamo, ne znamo kako da pričamo jedan s drugim, ali na kraju sve ispadne kako treba.

 

 

 

Koliko često imaš prilike da razvijaš rad unutar kustoskog koncepta? Tvoj način rada ne daje puno prostora kustosima da se umešaju?

 

Da, žao mi ih je. Zapravo kada radim, ne radim samo sa kustosem, radim sa čitavim timoom ljudi. Diskusija ili razmena je najbolji vid komunikacije, ne samo sa kustosom, sa celim timom. Važno je komunicirati, zaboravi na tzv. profesionalizam, profesionalizam na umetničkoj sceni, zapravo ne razumem šta znači biti profesionalac kao umetnik. Ja to ignorišem. Na neki način je sa mnom lako raditi, ali takođe, imam jaku tendenciju za samo-kuriranjem.

 

 

 

U februaru si učestvovao na izložbi u Palais de Tokyo u Parizu (All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace), pre toga si imao nekoliko samostalnih izložbi: u Aike Dellarco galeriji u Šangaju, Kini (I’ve been doing some thinking over these last few days), u S.M.A.K. galeriji u Gentu, Belgiji (A small sound in your head), Walker centru za umetnost u SAD-u (Hold your breath, dance slowly), u Shiseido galeriji u Tokiju (The voice behind me), itd. Tvoji naslovi su dosta poetični.

 

Hvala. Što se tiče izložbe u Parizu, naslov rada nisam potvrdio do noći pre otvaranja izložbe, završio sam postavku i onda sam smislio naziv. Ali na primer u Walker centru sam prvo smislio naslov, pa sam razmišljao o sadržaju izložbe, ili dizajnu prostora.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are showing a specter of emotions through these settings, it’s quiet, it’s clean and opened. But it seems so intimate and private, but you said it’s not about you at all.

 

Yes and no. From the beginning of course, it’s my own emotion, I cannot pretend that I can feel some other people’s emotions, because it’s impossible. I cannot feel other people’s feelings, so it’s personal from the beginning. It’s like preparing coffee, I always use this metaphor. I have the coffee beans, I have the coffee machine, I have a very good coffee filter, but what I want to give you is just coffee. If somebody gave me coffee and assumed I would like him to show me coffee beans and a coffee machine, I would find it annoying. I just want a cup of coffee. So I think I was preparing coffee in this show. 

I started to realize at the time, Biennale represents representing. Supposedly I should’ve been so proud of myself, but I really didn’t have that feeling. Somehow I found it annoying to represent a city. HK is becoming worse and worse. But also I didn’t want to talk about political situation in HK while in Venice. So, what I could do was to make a composition. It was very simple. And now I realize the whole space was my canvas. Even when I put that TV, I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about it (where to put that TV). I wasn’t working a lot, I was just thinking about where should I put it. And where should I put that vacuum cleaner, where should I put that white box, where should I put these two videos. It’s all about the composition, about texture, about color, then I thought it’s painting.

 

 

A specific palette of colors you use, pastel colors, and this motif of hands you often use, it appears almost as a study. Hands in different gestures. It’s often your hands or you girlfriend’s hands.

 

I didn’t realize that I use a lot of hand images. I didn’t know I was doing that, but then I started thinking about it. I realized maybe that’s because hands are very honest. For example when you love somebody you hold her hand. And when you feel nervous, angry, your hands spontaneously shake. Hands are very honest, You can’t lie, it’s less complicated than eyes. Now I feel I have another obsession. I didn’t realize. Mostly I use hands, some images that I find online, or from magazines, or from Facebook.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interviewed by: Katarina Kostandinović
Proofreading: Katarina Andrejević

 

 

The projector is what you often use as a light source. And on one occasion you said that you hate spotlights in gallery spaces. How did you start using a projector as a light source?

 

Yeah, I really don’t like spotlights. When I see a spotlight, I want to take it down. I used to install my own fluorescent lights, or use floor lamps from IKEA, something like that. But I can’t always rely on that. How I discovered it, the projector as a light source, was a coincidence. Picnic was a coincidence. Coincidence is a very important part of my practice which I can’t control. Once I was too lazy to get up to switch on the light so I had a projector near me, I switched it on, and then I hang the painting on the wall in front of it. Then I thought maybe I could take a photo of the painting and project it beside the painting. And it happened. Then I realized I have another light source, and it became a very important element quite recently in my projects.

 

 

You mentioned that: “The meaning of life is sometimes that we have a choice to do something really meaningless. Then we get inspired. For example art: art is really meaningless sometimes.”
In these rooms or settings you somehow express this quotidian life, repeating elements, but then you also get inspired by pop culture, you use lyrics or words you’ve read somewhere, or pictures that you’ve seen somewhere.      

 

For me these are all ready-made objects, provided, given, so I can use them. It’s very simple. Under ready-made concept I can do whatever I want. I have protection. Sound is very important to me. As we are talking now, there’s some noise outside, trumpets are playing. I hear myself talking, but also hear that sound. The sound is quite blurry, like an image from a far. I’m interested in this kind of distance. For example, if I make a small painting and hang it on the wall, when I get too close to it, I cannot see it clearly, it’s blurry, I have to step back so that I can look at it.

Every element, lyrics, words that I’ve written, or that I’ve read, or songs that I like, or heard in my childhood, they have a distance. I remember a lot of 80’s music, I know a lot of American and British pop songs, because we were colonized, it wasn’t my choice. But I remember them, they brainwashed me. I understand them in a different way, because they were at a distance. The distance is important: In order to see the details, the picture has to be blurry. Step back and you will be able to see the whole picture, but then you won’t be able to see the details. It’s like Sisyphus. You push the rock up the mountain, you fall back, and then push it again. But in the process I get more details. Not to forget the metaphor – where I’m looking at the picture, but I’m also looking at the space. The walls, the structure: I can apply them politically, as a point from which to look at the world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Bonnefanten Museum in Masstricht, Netherlands, commissioned your work in 2014?

 

This museum has a very interesting collection, they have religious paintings from the period between 14^th and 17^th century. Then suddenly: contemporary art. There’s no modern art, because they don’t have enough funding. They commissioned me because they realized that I’m really interested in hands. In religious paintings the hands tell the story. I didn’t do any research because when I looked through their entire collection, for me, it was just religious painting, I haven’t had that context. And the other things I’m obsessed with are common English names, like Johnny, John, Peter, and Mary. I often use them in my work. The setting in Basel was called “How to set up an apartment for Johnny” I like that name, but I’ve never met a single Johnny in my life. And Peter, a name I’m really interested in, coincidence maybe – Peter, religious paintings, images of hands…

When we are talking about the religion, I think resurrection is really important part of it. But I don’t think that now people believe in it as much as they did before. So where’s the resurrection? “Cut your finger. Give it to Peter” (Peter, 2014) maybe? The lyrics I wrote. Sometimes I write songs and I used to play music. And when I was installing the work at the museum all these things I mentioned suddenly came together.

 

 

The space is very important to you, also the emptiness of it?

 

I think that most of my projects cannot be reproduced, not because of the physical constraint, but because of the local context. The show in Tokyo (The voice behind me, Shiseido Gallery, 2015), and Tokyo itself creates the impression of this specific, quiet loneliness. Solitude. It’s the very Tokyo, not even Japan, and I wanted to capture it. From Venice it devolved into this situation in Tokyo, I think my exhibitions, or my projects are almost impossible to document, because it’s almost like a concert. It means you have to be there to experience it. It’s like a CD: If you buy a CD that’s the live recording of the concert, it’s still not a concert. You have to be there. And in the concert even the best musician can make a mistake, and that mistake may be the point. When I’m traveling to do an exhibition, I’m not traveling to do the exhibition. I’m doing concert. I’m trying to do something out of it, because I don’t know how to tell people verbally what I’m really concerned about.

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

What’s your process of developing a work for the exhibition, or specifically to develop a work within a curatorial concept? This is not your first time working with Biljana Ćirić?

 

We did two, or three projects before. The first one we did in 2015. in Yekaterinburg, Russia, at the Ural Biennial. She as a curator is very detailed and organized. She tends to know the details of the artists’ proposals and tends to be quite hands-on during the installment. But I’m not that kind of artist: Not because I’m lazy or irresponsible in a way, just because, again, I don’t know how to tell the people. If I’d explained it to you, I’m sure the next minute I’ll change my mind. To work with her seems like we are living in a parallel universe, cause we never talk to each other, we don’t know how to talk to each other, but somehow it works out well.

 

 

 

How often do you have a chance to produce the work within a curatorial concept? With your work it seems there’s not much room for curators to impose?

 

Yeah, I feel bad for them. Actually when I work with people I think I don’t only work with curators, I work with a whole team of people. To discuss or to exchange is the best way to communicate, not only for the curator, but also for the team. It’s important to communicate and forget about the so-called profession, professionalism in art scene. Actually, I don’t understand what’s considered under being professional as an artist. So I just ignore it. In a way I’m easy to work with, but I also have very strong self-curating tendency.

 

 

  

 

 

 

In February you opened an exhibition in Palais de Tokyo, “All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace” and before that you had several solo exhibitions: “I’ve been doing some thinking over these last few days”, AIKE DELLARCO, Shanghai, China; “A small sound in your head”, S.M.A.K., Gent, Belgium; “Hold your breath, dance slowly”, Burnet Gallery, Walker Art Center, Minneapolis, USA etc. These titles of yours are quite poetic.

 

Thank you. For the exhibition in Paris, I didn’t confirm the title until the night before the opening. I finished the setting and then I had the title. But for example the show in Walker Art Center (Hold your breath, dance slowly) I had the title first, and then I started to think about the content of the exhibition, or the